Interesting to me was a paragraph halfway through the third section, almost to the end, about what activities can count against you in college admission.
But what Espenshade and Radford found in regard to what they call "career-oriented activities" was truly shocking even to this hardened veteran of the campus ideological and cultural wars. Participation in such Red State activities as high school ROTC, 4-H clubs, or the Future Farmers of America was found to reduce very substantially a student's chances of gaining admission to the competitive private colleges in the NSCE database on an all-other-things-considered basis. The admissions disadvantage was greatest for those in leadership positions in these activities or those winning honors and awards. "Being an officer or winning awards" for such career-oriented activities as junior ROTC, 4-H, or Future Farmers of America, say Espenshade and Radford, "has a significantly negative association with admission outcomes at highly selective institutions." Excelling in these activities "is associated with 60 or 65 percent lower odds of admission."It is tribalism. It is all tribalism. Rule by the 19% designated liberal in the Pew Research Center typology, with presents for their coalition partners who are conned into thinking they share power.
10 comments:
The upside to JROTC is the opportunity for a full ROTC scholarship. It's good at some private universities too.
It's not exactly free, but a guaranteed job with 2LT pay and housing or housing allowance is nothing to scoff at. Paying off a $100,000* education in four years is the super bonus.
And while some snooty college recruiters may scoff at JROTC, employers often look very favorably at military service when hiring. As one corporate recruiter put it, "At least you know they can get out of bed and get to work on time."
Among my children and their significant others, the military has paid for five bachelors and two masters. So... yeah, I'm biased against colleges that look askance at military service at any level.
*That's what the Army ROTC scholarship covered for my oldest daughter's TCU degree -- tuition + $400/semester toward books and $150/semester stipend.
1. I dropped out of high school at 17. No, not disciplinary, drugs or the "usual" of today.
2. Joined the Marines.
3. Over the next nearly 40 years, I earned a BA (Hist), MS (Educ), MA (Mngmt) (and after retiring with 32 years on active duty), an MA (Hist).
4. I subsequently was an instructor of history at a community college (14 years).
5. All those years, either directly in/or on the fringes of academia entirely validate your comments about tribalism. I found/find most academics - despite the large vocabularies, and smirky faux intelligence, to be very narrow with their world-view locked in concrete at a early age.
6. Spouse and I are heading for Australia (second trip there) for a month. We've traveled much (nearly forty countries) and seen much (NOT on tours) and read much before we go...then you have some idea what you're looking at and its significance...and learning the local language, at least some, is also a plus. Yes, I know you know that.
7. I bought into education as a way to really know more AND to advance one's economic situation. Degrees are, still to many, the key to "get in the door". However, lots and lots of formal education is a farce and public education, in the main, is a massive fraud against taxpayers.
8. Yes, I guess I am ranting, kind of. I still do, however, support the notion of learning and read lots and lots of books.
9. What a wonderful way for a good, solid young person to serve their country AND get a formal education....get an ROTC scholarship.
10. How's your lad in the Marines doing?
Seems fine, but he doesn't tend to reveal himself over the phone. He has two weeks home sometime before deployment this fall. He has been concerned that the widow of his friend killed has been taking bad paths - and he is too far away to do much.
The idea of Chris going to traditional college still amuses. He actively dislikes books. But you never know. The Corps has changed him already, and who knows where it will end?
AVI,
I did 32 years in the Corps (Pvt-SSgt and 2ndLt-LtCol). I am currently mentoring an infantry SSgt who just returned from Afghanistan. I provided lists, ideas and things that worked for me in another war. He was happy with the help I provided. Make no mistake, NONE of my ideas or advice had to be complied with. I do like to help where I can...career Marines or those who are just doing four.
If you and your son would like me to answer any questions or provide any advice, I would be delighted to help. It could go through you or the TogetherWeServed website. You could even ask the SSgt I am mentoring how that is doing and whether he likes it or not.
No obligations. If you'd (or your son)rather not, that is OK.
Semper Fidelis,
LtCol William Curtis USMC (Ret) Pvt-SSgt and 2ndLt-LtCol 0311/0369/0302
Mission, TX
"It is all tribalism"
Yes... and/or no.
You see, it depends on the tribe.
Some tribes define membership by wealth, some by beliefs, some by actions, some by individual worthiness, some by some skin color, some by a measure of culture that defies concrete definition, some by things I do not understand now, but someday might.
And some tribes consider more than one of these attributes important for membership.
My problem is that I think I belong or feel membership in different tribes that probably have conflicting membership requirements.
Or, more accurately, that no tribe can rightfully require my membership.
I may belong to the tribe of the individual. Yet I can think the "Army of One" slogan somewhat silly.
There is value in patriarchy, there is value in feminism that fights the patriarchy. There is value in liberalism and there is value in conservatism. Libertarianism also has its good points... as does socialism.
My feeling of membership in any tribe is conditional... as is my acceptance.
For what it's worth, the modern (post cold war) military comes closest to my definition of inclusiveness with pragmatic exceptions.
Or... I could just need another, stronger, drink. Or two.
The college admissions people denigrating activities in 4-H, ROTC, and FFA doesn’t surprise me. After all, the liberal tribe looks down its nose on evil militarists and dumb farmers.
One comment about activities et al for high school people. It appears that a lot of HS students these days get into activities for something to put on their college applications for the so-called “good school.” This is putting the cart before the horse. High school – or earlier- is the time for trying out things, to decide what you like and don’t like, what you are good at and what you are not good at. Activities are a very good way to test things in that regard. The ideal career can often be where you turn your hobby into your career. Find what you love, and do it. High school is a very good time to pursue a hobby.
College is NOT a time for trying out things. It is a time for charging full steam ahead once you have decided. If you don’t know what to do when you are in college, you are best advised to drop out, get a job [which could be the military] , and use the time for figuring out. Anyone who uses activities to get into a “good school,” instead of using them to figure out what they want to do once they get to the “good school,” is definitely putting the cart before the horse. [ Yeah, I found out what I really liked to do in HS, and it was smoking big fat doobies.. :)]
One “activity” I find rather comical is going to some place in the third world to build a house or some such. People in the third world have plenty of time for that sort of stuff. They just don’t have the funds. They certainly don’t need a relatively rich and ignorant doofus from another country to build a house for them. Te lo juro.
Every time I have taken the Pew Center Typology Test, I score as an Enterpriser, so that result must be consistent. From the discussion about Enterprisers:
Enterprisers follow news about government and politics more closely than any other group, and exhibit the most knowledge about world affairs.
Check.
The Fox News Channel is their primary source of news (46% cite it as a main source) followed by newspapers (42%) radio (31%) and the internet (26%).
Internet for me, all the way. Fox: only when it is cited in a blog article.
Took that poll survey thingy and was classified as an "upbeat"...whatever that means.
Gringo makes many excellent observations. Despite all of the fashionable talk about relativism and equality on elite campuses, as anyone who has spent much time on those campuses known, some groups and activities are more equal than others.
I also liked Donna B's statement "that no tribe can rightfully require my membership." I often feel that way, but it can be a lonely road, too. As a young person, I wanted to belong to what AVI calls "the arts and humanities" tribe on our nation's elite campuses, but as I've reflected in my comments before, I could never fully accept all its tenets. Many years on, I look around at my classmates and friends from college and graduate school and realize I have very little in common with most of them any more.
wv: fating
Democracy was always about the 1% oligarchy ruling over the rest of the peons in the majority.
Keeping the red necks out of high command and the top of the political hierarchy is only one method of keeping things in stasis.
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