tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19305198.post5763377577187666928..comments2024-03-27T03:19:11.216-04:00Comments on Assistant Village Idiot: Universal LanguageAssistant Village Idiothttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01978011985085795099noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19305198.post-9537340654670169332022-02-17T01:08:36.409-05:002022-02-17T01:08:36.409-05:00I owned a Basic English Bible once, but I chucked ...I owned a Basic English Bible once, but I chucked it as a thing of no value when I was trying to reduce my book load. I understand the desire for simplicity in language, but some things just can't be stated correctly with a limited vocabulary.G. Poulinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18293368745484671254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19305198.post-63044260848114490202022-02-16T08:44:50.558-05:002022-02-16T08:44:50.558-05:00I have not read the book - I am already convinced ...I have not read the book - I am already convinced of its premise and have other McWhorter works higher on the list - but I should see if your thought is actually part of the reasoning. John's a smart guy, and pretty thorough.Assistant Village Idiothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01978011985085795099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19305198.post-5087900586265368982022-02-16T08:43:24.386-05:002022-02-16T08:43:24.386-05:00@ James - interesting. That may be the motivation...@ James - interesting. That may be the motivation, but I have never heard that emphasised. I have mostly (only?) heard the framing of examples of Americans misunderstanding other cultures because they didn't understand language nuances - which might have some truth in it, but is not the same thing - or of applauding other peoples because they have more terms for friends meaning it is more important too them, or fewer terms for friends meaning that each includes more people, but either way they are nicer than us in harsh, competitive America, or similar.<br /><br />But what you point out is indeed an important belief to the people who are advocating for the idea that language exerts enormous influence on what and how we think. This is true of both conservatives and liberals, as I have seen the idea pop up in links at conservative sites the past two decades as well, and underlies the thinking of both the language police and those who are furious at the language police. Saying that the language police don't much matter either way is the minority opinion. (Note: the language police might still matter in other ways, as in when they are creating verbal traps where everyone must err in some way in order to distribute blame and shame, or when they intentionally obscure meanings to bamboozle people.)Assistant Village Idiothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01978011985085795099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19305198.post-37552159010048294962022-02-15T20:51:48.187-05:002022-02-15T20:51:48.187-05:00I looked up "the Language Hoax" and foun...I looked up "the Language Hoax" and found this in the blurb: " but also why we want so badly to believe it: we're eager to celebrate diversity by acknowledging the intelligence of peoples who may not think like we do."<br /><br />I don't think that's even in the same city, let alone the ballpark. We want to believe it because some of us believe that education is all we need to change people--change the language so crimethink is hard, change the media to only teach goodthink, and children will grow up to be perfect adults. It isn't just the current woke who believe this sort of thing: “Give me a child until he is five, and I will show you the man.”jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01792036361407527304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19305198.post-57018452107656991652022-02-15T12:53:15.523-05:002022-02-15T12:53:15.523-05:00English is structurally a more capable language. ...English is structurally a more capable language. There are many more words than say Italian or French so you can more precisely define just about anything. I had a business partner years ago say he loved contracts written in French as you could make them mean almost anything you wanted!<br /><br />I work a lot with non-native english speakers and find that if I keep my use of colloquial expressions low, we get along very well. Its amazing how much we use from cowboy talk(ex riding herd, or round them up), Baseball (in the ballpark, touch base, strike out), and others.<br /><br />The lack of tones and accents makes it much better for written applications. Also it is claimed worldwide now and has little cultural baggage in most places.dmoellinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13128088863830769762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19305198.post-70467809688080511162022-02-15T10:55:32.409-05:002022-02-15T10:55:32.409-05:00I am not absolutely sure my wife and I speak the s...I am not absolutely sure my wife and I speak the same language. The evidence is only partial.Assistant Village Idiothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01978011985085795099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19305198.post-59472528407690197682022-02-15T09:56:11.463-05:002022-02-15T09:56:11.463-05:00If a common language could eliminate disputes, wou...If a common language could eliminate disputes, would there be any divorces?jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01792036361407527304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19305198.post-68336789050146188332022-02-15T09:23:29.717-05:002022-02-15T09:23:29.717-05:00Christopher B: A ntv spkr cn ndrstnd n Nglsh sntnc...<b>Christopher B</b>: <i>A ntv spkr cn ndrstnd n Nglsh sntnc wth n vwls.</i><br /><br />Ndd! (On a related note: If letters in the English language were randomly distributed, it would take about 5 bits to store each letter. But humans or bots can fill in the blanks so well based on knowledge of the patterns in language that the information entropy of the English language is only about 1 bit or so per letter.)<br /><br /><b>Donna B</b>: <i>Spelling Bees just wouldn't be any fun in 10-20 years would they? </i><br /><br />Down with Twain and his "reform"!Zachrielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16081260898264733380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19305198.post-32058585340018667892022-02-14T21:56:17.537-05:002022-02-14T21:56:17.537-05:00@Zach - that was... um, interesting! Spelling Bees...@Zach - that was... um, interesting! Spelling Bees just wouldn't be any fun in 10-20 years would they?Donna B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16771075314473811594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19305198.post-86549004455749471042022-02-14T21:23:33.845-05:002022-02-14T21:23:33.845-05:00@ Douglas2 - yeah, i knew the number was too high,...@ Douglas2 - yeah, i knew the number was too high, but i also knew it warn't nothin'. It also means that many people in India who do not actually speak English have some exposure to it, and would put any learning energy there rather than Mandarin.Assistant Village Idiothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01978011985085795099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19305198.post-52035025391207592152022-02-14T16:41:28.742-05:002022-02-14T16:41:28.742-05:00Looks like I'm wrong on the English-speaker pe...Looks like I'm wrong on the English-speaker percent in India in my comment above. I confess to being led astray by Indian (& Maltese, & Singaporean . . .) students abroad who are offended by being asked to take the TOEFL exam to study in Canada/US/UK when they've been taught in English for every subject from primary-school through university. In India they're not representative of the culture as a whole.<br /><br />Douglas2Douglas2https://www.blogger.com/profile/11290012200563917585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19305198.post-26501630536070388142022-02-14T16:36:11.271-05:002022-02-14T16:36:11.271-05:00AFAIK, English is still the dominant language in b...AFAIK, English is still the dominant language in business of the European Union bureaucracy, even with the UK no longer a member. Malta and Ireland have designated Maltese and Gaelic rather than English as their preferred language (even though in practice none of their EU representatives or bureaucrats actually use those in EU business day-to-day), so English should now have only a de-facto rather than any official presence there. <br /><br />I think people forget that there are almost as many native English speakers in India (even if another language is their 'cradle' language) as there are Chinese speakers in China.Douglas2https://www.blogger.com/profile/11290012200563917585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19305198.post-16718831050493105672022-02-14T16:32:00.778-05:002022-02-14T16:32:00.778-05:00The BBC does not offer news service in Scots.The BBC does <i>not</i> offer news service in Scots. Grimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07543082562999855432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19305198.post-9728732521319409492022-02-14T16:30:14.939-05:002022-02-14T16:30:14.939-05:00If you just want to speak Mandarin well enough to ...If you just want to speak Mandarin well enough to get by, you only need to know ~100 of the most common words plus a few counting words to indicate what kind of quantity you wish to buy or sell. It’s not hard to get there. <br /><br />Pidgin English is still used in parts of Africa. It’s readily understandable if you sound it out, perhaps more so than Scots. The BBC has a news service in it. <br /><br />https://www.bbc.com/pidginGrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07543082562999855432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19305198.post-62634502359487039742022-02-14T16:16:45.173-05:002022-02-14T16:16:45.173-05:00A ntv spkr cn ndrstnd n Nglsh sntnc wth n vwls.
I...A ntv spkr cn ndrstnd n Nglsh sntnc wth n vwls.<br /><br />I remember realizing a news vendor in Paris was speaking to someone who was pretty obviously Italian in broken English. We've borrowed so many Latin-Saxon cognates that most Europeans can probably use English as a common tongue.<br /><br />French as a diplomatic language probably has the advantage of a defining body that policies words and meanings so you can appeal to a somewhat somewhat neutral arbiter for resolution of interpretation.Christopher Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00396671757183163171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19305198.post-67029819819554689482022-02-14T15:22:56.383-05:002022-02-14T15:22:56.383-05:00Assistant Village Idiot: But doesn't English s...<b>Assistant Village Idiot</b>: <i>But doesn't English spelling ruin everything so much that it just has to fall into disfavor eventually? </i><br /><br />A PLAN FOR THE IMPROVEMENT OF ENGLISH SPELLING<br />attributed to Mark Twain<br /><br />For example, in Year 1 that useless letter "c" would be dropped to be replased either by "k" or "s", and likewise "x" would no longer be part of the alphabet.<br /><br />The only kase in which "c" would be retained would be the "ch" formation, which will be dealt with later.<br /><br />Year 2 might reform "w" spelling, so that "which" and "one" would take the same konsonant, wile Year 3 might well abolish "y" replasing it with "i" and iear 4 might fiks the "g/j" anomali wonse and for all.<br /><br />Jenerally, then, the improvement would kontinue iear bai iear with iear 5 doing awai with useless double konsonants, and iears 6-12 or so modifaiing vowlz and the rimeining voist and unvoist konsonants.<br /><br />Bai iear 15 or sou, it wud fainali bi posibl tu meik ius ov thi ridandant letez "c", "y" and "x" -- bai now jast a memori in the maindz ov ould doderez -- tu riplais "ch", "sh", and "th" rispektivli.<br /><br />Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers ov orxogrefkl riform, wi wud hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld.Zachrielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16081260898264733380noreply@blogger.com