tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19305198.post3012613742215584923..comments2024-03-27T03:19:11.216-04:00Comments on Assistant Village Idiot: Text And SubtextAssistant Village Idiothttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01978011985085795099noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19305198.post-87531188681977121072012-03-12T15:07:21.654-04:002012-03-12T15:07:21.654-04:00But there are good reasons for backing off from su...<i>But there are good reasons for backing off from subtext interpretations as anything more than supplementary data. They are far more susceptible to our own biases and emotional states than pure text arguments.</i><br /><br />Yeah, that. <br /><br />Wish I could find a better way to say that. Reading the subtext (finding the 'real reason' a person expresses an opinion) is a method of argument that tries to shut down the opposition.<br /><br />Not by argument, but by name-calling. <br /><br />I can't find a politer way to express this. Reading the 'subtext', and asserting that the new meaning discovered there replaces the meaning in the text, is a form of argument by name-calling.<br /><br />This (as well as the usual opinions brought forth after someone uses 'subtext') makes me a little mad at the entire process.karrdehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00205160745963596856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19305198.post-76093063107143481312012-03-12T11:06:03.238-04:002012-03-12T11:06:03.238-04:00I agree there's a strong element of "ever...I agree there's a strong element of "everybody struggles; let's talk" as long as it's the kind of sin we think "our kind" of people often commit. But if it's that other kind of sin, look out below!<br /><br />The same problem shows up in reverse with forgiveness. It's easy to forgive the kind of sin we often fall into ourselves, or that in our hearts we think is just forbidden but not genuinely wrong, like violating the Sabbath. It's a lot harder to forgive a child molester. For people who lump homosexuality in with child molesting, it's obvious that we have to take a firm stand against homosexuality and not coddle it. But then they fail miserably at humility and forgiveness with regard to that particular sinner. For people who lump homosexuality in with harmless premarital sex, it's obvious that we're all sinners and none of us should lord it over others. But then they fail miserably at honoring God's law by refusing to wink at sin.<br /><br />Sometimes I think we scarcely treat sin as sin at all. There are just crimes that bug us personally and crimes that don't. You know, it's a sin, but not a "sin" sin. -- But just pollute the Earth with CO2, and look out. Or, on the other side, just fraternize with those dirty gays.<br /><br />Why is it so easy for churchgoers to deal with adulterers or divorcees? It's not really about whether they've repented, usually. It's just that there are sexual transgressions that hit us in the gut, and others that don't.Texan99https://www.blogger.com/profile/10479561573903660086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19305198.post-6583451105738077882012-03-12T04:49:22.404-04:002012-03-12T04:49:22.404-04:00The one place I've seen it treated differently...The one place I've seen it treated differently (with very poor results) was not in the actual "action" phase, but in the "planning/struggling" phase.<br /><br />I had several good friends in college who struggled with this, all while attending various Christian groups. When they finally opened up to someone in leadership (3 different people, 3 different groups of leaders) they were all told some version of "limit your involvement with this group until you've decided if you're gay, and if you decide yes you're out". Every single one left the church within a month, and a decade later none have gone back. <br /><br />I criticize those leaders because honestly, college groups deal with sexual sin all the time and I know what they responded with to the heteros in the group. Coffee with leaders, long talks about character and "who do you want to be". They condemned the actions for sure, but it was much more of a "hey, everyone struggles, let's talk" reaction. I think not letting people share their struggles is dangerous, and I truly think at least two of the three I'm thinking of would still be in the church today if someone had let them just talk a few things out without jumping on them. <br /><br />To note: not one of these kids was (at the moment they sought help) actually doing anything wrong, just struggling with temptation. Before every action there's a planning phase, and it's there I've seen the church most fail people who's struggles aren't garden variety.bs kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02871717971078952304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19305198.post-86982619149110829322012-03-11T21:22:41.013-04:002012-03-11T21:22:41.013-04:00This is a very thoughtful and accurate assessment,...This is a very thoughtful and accurate assessment, AVI.<br /><br />I ran into this issue this past week. Our church is running a Lenten devotional campaign in which we use a purpose-edited book of daily meditations comprising contributions from many of my city's pastors. <br /><br />It's been very good, until last week we hit the inevitable lesson on 'We must welcome all to The Family and strive to avoid oppressing them on the basis of race, class and gender'. (It really uses the phrase 'race, class and gender' verbatim -- twice! You cannot parody this stuff.) The groups identified for extra-special welcoming: sex workers, AIDs victims, and homosexuals.<br /><br />Anyway, the message, as always from this crowd, is that Jesus welcomed 'the marginalized' in His society, so we must emulate Him. So be it! But the Biblical witness is then immediately abandoned, i.e. the parts where Jesus tells people to repent and sin no more.<br /><br />This is what infuriates so many more conservative Christians, and creates the impression that we want to crack down especially hard on sexual sin. No! I am with C S Lewis on this, actually -- I think many types of sexual sin are likely less harmful than other sins. But I will not agree to condone it, much less see it raised up as a characteristic that somehow reflects a special grace or blessing from God, which is precisely what I'm being asked to do in that devotional. . . .<br /><br />We conservative Christians would also be far more likely to raise the alarms about other kinds of sin if our children were being subjected to organized, state-sanctioned programs of 'education' in schools that celebrated and demanded admiration of those sins. <br /><br />It's all so sadly and predictably anachronistic, isn't it? So many parts of the Church today are fighting the sins of the 19th century, as the challenges of the day pass them by or are meekly accommodated. True counterculturalism is very, very hard.Mr Tallnoreply@blogger.com